Def Boost - Guild Wars Forums

Kamodobone Jr · Nov 16, 2009, 04:49 AM // 04:49

will i get a Def Boost with war as my sub for monk as main? im going to start over and want to know if i get boost as war as sub im not going to use war skills just want boost in def if i can get it

tejive · Nov 16, 2009, 05:20 AM // 05:20

short answer: no
long answer: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Breakfast Mc Rit · Nov 16, 2009, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Are you asking if you get an armor bonus for being Warrior secondary? You won't get it for just having Mo/W. You can use shields to get an extra +8 armor and +16 with 9 Tactics with a shield that has a 9 Tactics requirement.

Skyy High · Nov 16, 2009, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Your secondary does not affect your stats in any way, it merely lets you use skills from another profession. Without equipping any war skills, your mo/w would have the exact same defense as a mo/anything else.

[edit]Oh yeah, and it lets you possibly put 9 levels in tactics so you can use a shield, but that'll only get you 8 more armor than you would get without any points in tactics, and if you're not using any tactics skills it's a huge waste of att points.

majikmajikmajik · Nov 16, 2009, 06:36 AM // 06:36

you can use a shield regardless..

ontopic: your 2ndery profession has nothign to do with your primary other then allowing you to use its skills and attributes. i suggest checking out wiki.guildwars.com for researching and general walkthrough of everything gw.

iTwilight · Nov 16, 2009, 07:39 AM // 07:39

I wouldnt start you character completely over JUST to change a secondary profession.

Besides, you can always change it once you have ascended and visit one of the several profession changers spread out among the campaigns (There is one in the Great Temple of Balthazar).

Kendil · Nov 16, 2009, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

[edit]Oh yeah, and it lets you possibly put 9 levels in tactics so you can use a shield, but that'll only get you 8 more armor than you would get without any points in tactics, and if you're not using any tactics skills it's a huge waste of att points.

wrong there m8. If you have shield with 16 AL and you meet the requierment you'll get +16AL, if you do not, then you'll only get half the armor, which is 8 in this case.

Dzjudz · Nov 16, 2009, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendil

wrong there m8. If you have shield with 16 AL and you meet the requierment you'll get +16AL, if you do not, then you'll only get half the armor, which is 8 in this case.

That is exactly what Skyy was saying.... read it again. It's even in the exact part you bolded for emphasis. I have to agree with the poster above me

.

Songbringer · Nov 16, 2009, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendil

wrong there m8. If you have shield with 16 AL and you meet the requierment you'll get +16AL, if you do not, then you'll only get half the armor, which is 8 in this case.

Ok lets go back to 2nd grade here. You equip a shield that you don't meet the req on. You get 8AL. You then equip a new shield you meet the req on. You now get 16AL. The difference between 8 and 16 is? Wait for it....8.

Eragon Zarroc · Nov 16, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54

defenses are based on the armor being worn, not the secondary class you choose.

Yasmine · Nov 16, 2009, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Songbringer

Ok lets go back to 2nd grade here. You equip a shield that you don't meet the req on. You get 8AL. You then equip a new shield you meet the req on. You now get 16AL. The difference between 8 and 16 is? Wait for it....8.

I think he was pointing out that you get 8 more armor only if you use a max shield (i.e. if you use a 14 armor r11 tactics shield, you will get a base armor of 7 and 7 more if you add 11 points in tactics).

Yawgmoth · Nov 16, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasmine Mc Coy

I think he was pointing out that you get 8 more armor only if you use a max shield (i.e. if you use a 14 armor r11 tactics shield, you will get a base armor of 7 and 7 more if you add 11 points in tactics).

Wrong. It's always 8 armor for all dropped (randomly generated) shields. It doesn't matter if you use a shield with 14 armor or 9 armor if you don't meet the req and don't meet the req you'll still get 8 armor. Even better, a shield with Armor 8 (some requirement you don't meet) will still give you full 8 armor

Over all those years I'm watching clueless masses spreading false info on this, I really didn't expect it to go that long.

MagmaRed · Nov 16, 2009, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Wrong. It's always 8 armor for all dropped (randomly generated) shields. It doesn't matter if you use a shield with 14 armor or 9 armor if you don't meet the req and don't meet the req you'll still get 8 armor. Even better, a shield with Armor 8 (some requirement you don't meet) will still give you full 8 armor

Over all those years I'm watching clueless masses spreading false info on this, I really didn't expect it to go that long.

Clueless masses? Try wiki. If wiki is wrong, and you are right, why haven't you modified the wiki to correct the problem?

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shield

Any profession can equip shields, but most shields have requirements for a minimum rank in the warrior's Tactics or Strength or the paragon's Motivation or Command attributes ranging from 0 to 13. Without meeting that requirement, the Armor used is half of the normal Armor value. While shields with the maximum Armor have been observed with requirements as low as 7, maximum Armor shields with inscription slots have only been observed with attribute requirements as low as 8, and green shields, collector shields and crafted shields with the maximum Armor always have an attribute requirement of 9. Shields with a requirement of 0 and armor as high as 10 are available as loot.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shield

Shields are a type of item equipped in the offhand. They provide up to 16 Armor rating for all hit locations. In addition, they can take up to 2 upgrades, one Inscription and one suffix, a Shield Handle. Older shields may have those as inherent bonuses and may have two quasi-inscription bonuses.

Shields have attribute requirements in order to provide their full armor rating bonus. Upgrades, however, are not affected by this. One of four attributes are used, Strength, Tactics, Command, or Motivation. If you do not meet the requirement, you only benefit from half of the listed armor rating.

Do you have evidence to prove that shields provide 8 armor if you don't meet the requirement, even if the shield says it provides 12 armor with a requirment in Tactics/Strength/Command/Motivation? Since neither wiki nor wikia support you, you'd best provide your evidence.

Yawgmoth · Nov 16, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I've tested it back in 2005 when testing 'unids' was popular, it was always fixed 8 armor for all dropped shields and 5 armor for all 'fixed' (collector/crafter/green/etc.). It was very easy to test and prove. Then the 13th July 2006 update changed all max 'fixed' shields to also be 8 armor, leaving nonmax unchanged (there might be an exception somewhere, I didn't test every single shield in game).

It was a fun experiment for me to watch how long it would take for people to discover the truth, but after 4 years and the game dying I don't care anymore if it would take 5 years or forever.

Wikis are often wrong. I knew of many such cases but I've rarely bothered with correcting them. This one was my pet example of "don't always trust the wikis".

Dzjudz · Nov 16, 2009, 10:03 PM // 22:03

W T F

Yawgmoth is right

I just tested it, screenies to come.

Equipment:
60 armor rating armor (ele)
req8 tactics shield al13 (plagueborn shield)
req9 tactics shield al16 (adamantine shield)
req9 pvp strength shield al16
req9 pvp tac/moti/comm shield al16

Skills:
glyph of immolation @ 15 fire magic
glowing gaze @ 15 fire magic (50 dmg)
searing flames @ 15 fire magic (100 dmg)

Conclusions (screenies as proof to come):

Skills do stated dmg (50 and 100) against armor without shield.
With 9 tactics, glowing gaze does 38dmg vs al16, 40dmg vs al13
With 0 tactics, glowing gaze does 44dmg vs al16, 44dmg vs al13
With 0 tactics, searing flames does 87 dmg vs al16, 87 dmg vs al13
With 0 tactics, searing flames does 86 dmg vs PvP Strength Shield al16

If you do not meet a shield's requirement, you get 8 armor, no matter the armor you would get if you met the requirement. Surprisingly, you get 9 armor from the PvP Strength Shield if you do not meet the requirement.

P.S. I see Yawgmoth already pointed this out on the wiki talk page.

P.P.S. Changed both wikis to reflect the outcome of the tests.

P.P.P.S. wtf? You get 16 armor from this shield vs fire dmg if you meet the req, but 15 if you don't!

I'm going to do some more research on shields tomorrow, but it's time for bed now. Screens to come later as well. These three shields in particular.

Skyy High · Nov 16, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendil

wrong there m8. If you have shield with 16 AL and you meet the requierment you'll get +16AL, if you do not, then you'll only get half the armor, which is 8 in this case.

Yeah, guess this was already responded to quite nicely above but...lol?

Also: damn, I need to get me some of those shields Dzjudz.

MagmaRed · Nov 17, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50

I wasn't trying to say Yawg was wrong. I was simply stating the wikis both have different info, and that was what most people use. I also thought that if he had done the research and had evidence of that claim he should edit the wikis to change the info so people would not be wrong anymore when using it.

I know wiki and wikia are not always right. However, they are user edited, meaning that if you find something wrong, you should modify it so other people don't continue to use incorrect info.

Yawgmoth · Nov 17, 2009, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Talking about odd shields, I have tested many in the past but haven't bothered finding and testing this one, but something was telling me it may behave differently than all others. So finally today I've got myself to farm one and test it. My suspections were right - this one shield IS an exception to the rule, as it gains you 6 armor while you don't meet it's req.

Now the only other shield I expect to work differently is the Canthan Targe, unfortunately I have no way to test it.

Nov 16, 2009, 04:49 AM // 04:49	#1
Kamodobone Jr Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Mar 2009 Guild: Kamodo bone Profession: Mo/N	Def Boost will i get a Def Boost with war as my sub for monk as main? im going to start over and want to know if i get boost as war as sub im not going to use war skills just want boost in def if i can get it

Nov 16, 2009, 05:20 AM // 05:20	#2
tejive Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: :> Guild: notplayingGWatm[:o] Profession: Mo/	short answer: no long answer: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Last edited by Neo Nugget; Nov 16, 2009 at 06:14 AM // 06:14.. Reason: removed unnecessary attatchment.

Nov 16, 2009, 10:03 PM // 22:03	#15
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	W T F Yawgmoth is right I just tested it, screenies to come. Equipment: 60 armor rating armor (ele) req8 tactics shield al13 (plagueborn shield) req9 tactics shield al16 (adamantine shield) req9 pvp strength shield al16 req9 pvp tac/moti/comm shield al16 Skills: glyph of immolation @ 15 fire magic glowing gaze @ 15 fire magic (50 dmg) searing flames @ 15 fire magic (100 dmg) Conclusions (screenies as proof to come): Skills do stated dmg (50 and 100) against armor without shield. With 9 tactics, glowing gaze does 38dmg vs al16, 40dmg vs al13 With 0 tactics, glowing gaze does 44dmg vs al16, 44dmg vs al13 With 0 tactics, searing flames does 87 dmg vs al16, 87 dmg vs al13 With 0 tactics, searing flames does 86 dmg vs PvP Strength Shield al16 If you do not meet a shield's requirement, you get 8 armor, no matter the armor you would get if you met the requirement. Surprisingly, you get 9 armor from the PvP Strength Shield if you do not meet the requirement. P.S. I see Yawgmoth already pointed this out on the wiki talk page. P.P.S. Changed both wikis to reflect the outcome of the tests. P.P.P.S. wtf? You get 16 armor from this shield vs fire dmg if you meet the req, but 15 if you don't! I'm going to do some more research on shields tomorrow, but it's time for bed now. Screens to come later as well. These three shields in particular. Last edited by Dzjudz; Nov 16, 2009 at 11:37 PM // 23:37..

Nov 16, 2009, 05:24 AM // 05:24	#3
Breakfast Mc Rit Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2008 Guild: [Sin] Profession: Me/	Are you asking if you get an armor bonus for being Warrior secondary? You won't get it for just having Mo/W. You can use shields to get an extra +8 armor and +16 with 9 Tactics with a shield that has a 9 Tactics requirement.

Nov 16, 2009, 05:45 AM // 05:45	#4
Skyy High Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2006 Profession: R/	Your secondary does not affect your stats in any way, it merely lets you use skills from another profession. Without equipping any war skills, your mo/w would have the exact same defense as a mo/anything else. [edit]Oh yeah, and it lets you possibly put 9 levels in tactics so you can use a shield, but that'll only get you 8 more armor than you would get without any points in tactics, and if you're not using any tactics skills it's a huge waste of att points.

Nov 16, 2009, 06:36 AM // 06:36	#5
majikmajikmajik Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: SATown~Tx Guild: Guild Hopper! Profession: R/	you can use a shield regardless.. ontopic: your 2ndery profession has nothign to do with your primary other then allowing you to use its skills and attributes. i suggest checking out wiki.guildwars.com for researching and general walkthrough of everything gw.

Nov 16, 2009, 07:39 AM // 07:39	#6
iTwilight Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2009 Guild: Shadow Form is Underpowered [Lies] Profession: Mo/	I wouldnt start you character completely over JUST to change a secondary profession. Besides, you can always change it once you have ascended and visit one of the several profession changers spread out among the campaigns (There is one in the Great Temple of Balthazar).

Nov 16, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54	#10
Eragon Zarroc Atra estern?? ono thelduin Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madness Incarnate Guild: [Duo] Profession: W/P	defenses are based on the armor being worn, not the secondary class you choose.

Nov 16, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30	#14
Yawgmoth Furnace Stoker Join Date: Apr 2005	I've tested it back in 2005 when testing 'unids' was popular, it was always fixed 8 armor for all dropped shields and 5 armor for all 'fixed' (collector/crafter/green/etc.). It was very easy to test and prove. Then the 13th July 2006 update changed all max 'fixed' shields to also be 8 armor, leaving nonmax unchanged (there might be an exception somewhere, I didn't test every single shield in game). It was a fun experiment for me to watch how long it would take for people to discover the truth, but after 4 years and the game dying I don't care anymore if it would take 5 years or forever. Wikis are often wrong. I knew of many such cases but I've rarely bothered with correcting them. This one was my pet example of "don't always trust the wikis".

Nov 17, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50	#17
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	I wasn't trying to say Yawg was wrong. I was simply stating the wikis both have different info, and that was what most people use. I also thought that if he had done the research and had evidence of that claim he should edit the wikis to change the info so people would not be wrong anymore when using it. I know wiki and wikia are not always right. However, they are user edited, meaning that if you find something wrong, you should modify it so other people don't continue to use incorrect info.

Nov 17, 2009, 05:45 AM // 05:45	#18
Yawgmoth Furnace Stoker Join Date: Apr 2005	Talking about odd shields, I have tested many in the past but haven't bothered finding and testing this one, but something was telling me it may behave differently than all others. So finally today I've got myself to farm one and test it. My suspections were right - this one shield IS an exception to the rule, as it gains you 6 armor while you don't meet it's req. Now the only other shield I expect to work differently is the Canthan Targe, unfortunately I have no way to test it.